Star Tribune report on stream rehab

General trout, fishing, conservation, or anything outdoors related discussion. Trip reports and stream conditions welcome, but please do not name streams.
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PicketPin
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Location: Lanesboro

Star Tribune report on stream rehab

Post by PicketPin »

Star Tribune outdoors writer Tony Kennedy reported Sunday on the problem of over-reliance on wood, rather than rock, in recent stream improvement work -- a topic first raised on this forum.
http://www.startribune.com/stream-rehab ... 510120212/

brntrout
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Re: Star Tribune report on stream rehab

Post by brntrout »

PicketPin wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 7:04 am
Star Tribune outdoors writer Tony Kennedy reported Sunday on the problem of over-reliance on wood, rather than rock, in recent stream improvement work -- a topic first raised on this forum.
http://www.startribune.com/stream-rehab ... 510120212/
Article Quote: DNR fisheries and eco-waters officials issued a statement Friday saying the agency continues to learn from “both the successes and the setbacks’’ of 125 projects completed over the past 25 years. The statement said repairs are needed for recent washouts on two projects, but three others in the region held up “very well’’ to this spring’s high flows.

Article Quote: The science behind DNR stream restorations blends principles of biology, water quality, hydrology, sediment loads and proper channel configuration, the statement said.

Based on the fact every project designed by DNR Eco Services or permitted by them using their design criteria has washed away in SE MN, and the fact they provide no significant improvement in real trout habitat the above statement seems extremely contrary to whats really happening with their Rosgen /WD projects.

I have yet to see any Eco Services type designed projects that hold up very well even under normal flooding. The three projects they refer too must be North and West of Hay Creek. All the rest of the MNTU/Eco Services Rosgen /WD projects have lots major erosion issues in the rest of the SE region

BTW, its not two projects either, its most of Hay Creek 4 or 5 projects, Mill Creek 3 projects, Cold Spring Brook, East Indian Creek 2 projects, Rush Creek 1 project, Pine Creek 1 project, Garvin Brook 1 project and Newburg Creek is slow eroding away. The article also does not mention none of the Rosgen woody debris type projects provide any significant improvement in trout habitat either. AND their is zero data to support these types projects do anything beneficial at all for any species, including trout!

FYI the "NEW" WW Middle Br State Park project (third project in 17 years)MN DNR Eco Services is currently working on will fail first normal flood that has 6 feet of water, its a sure bet! :x
Last edited by brntrout on Sun May 19, 2019 10:54 am, edited 2 times in total.

WhiteGlovedHowdy
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Re: Star Tribune report on stream rehab

Post by WhiteGlovedHowdy »

Kennedy did a nice job. Curious when TU leadership will get on board? I'm all for gathering information, but not forever. At some point, it becomes just guessing. Seems Eco services wood projects have serious problems. Good article.

brntrout
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Re: Star Tribune report on stream rehab

Post by brntrout »

WhiteGlovedHowdy wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 9:31 am
Kennedy did a nice job. Curious when TU leadership will get on board? I'm all for gathering information, but not forever. At some point, it becomes just guessing. Seems Eco services wood projects have serious problems. Good article.
In general I think Tony did an alright job. At the same time, Tony , didn't do enough investigation to find out how large of scale the problem actually is? Of course, MNTU and DNR Eco Services want this problem behind them as soon as possible. So, MN DNR Eco Serivces sugar coating everything during their interviews is their way out, without admitting they are directly responsible for all these BAD projects and the millions of dollars of wasted LSOHC funding! AND, I don't appreciate the DNR not telling the truth by saying only two streams need repairs either, which is FAR FROM THE TRUTH!

Added: I would say John Lenczewski said the right things when being interviewed, except the part about the sky is not falling. The sky may not be falling, but there still are serious issues that need to be rectified before we can get back to trout habitat projects being designed that are durable/long lasting that provide the RIGHT HABITAT necessary for ALL SIZES of trout and other species including some non game species.

I wonder what DNR Eco Services is going to say when their "NEW" WW Middle Br. State Park project washes away for the third time. BTW that project is LSOHC funded as well ! :x

PicketPin
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Location: Lanesboro

Re: Star Tribune report on stream rehab

Post by PicketPin »

One of the reader comments to the story on StarTribune.com stated that Hay Creek rehab work also washed out during this year's high flows. So I'm wondering if anyone has seen this and if so what section(s). That stream near the metro area has older rehab with rock in an upper easement section, and some newer "woody debris" work downstream on state land.

brntrout
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Re: Star Tribune report on stream rehab

Post by brntrout »

We took pictures of washed out woody debris projects on Hay Creek (numerous projects), Cold Spring Brook, East Indian Creek 2 projects, Mill Creek, Rush Creek and Pine Creek and sent them to the LSOHC so they know its not just a couple streams that have big problems.

High Stick
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Re: Star Tribune report on stream rehab

Post by High Stick »

WGH -TU and Ecological Services have been guessing all along. Ian Chisholm of the DNR is on record saying that there has never been any long-term monitoring of the effectiveness or failure of the H.I. projects since 2009 that use WD/Rosgen.

NONE.

brntrout
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Re: Star Tribune report on stream rehab

Post by brntrout »


[quote=PicketPin post_id=13356 time=1558308440 user_id=309]
One of the reader comments to the story on StarTribune.com stated that Hay Creek rehab work also washed out during this year's high flows. So I'm wondering if anyone has seen this and if so what section(s). That stream near the metro area has older rehab with rock in an upper easement section, and some newer "woody debris" work downstream on state land.
[/quote]


The upper area of Hay Creek (2008 project) which has rock has some "minor" maintenance issues. As one goes down stream where less rock is used there gets to be more & more significant wash out issues the further one goes downstream. The last project on the state land that used little rock has severe wash out issues. Pictures of that project were sent to the LSOHC.


brntrout
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Re: Star Tribune report on stream rehab

Post by brntrout »

Star Trib article on Stream Rehab. From the comment section of the Star Trib.

From: IBeoutdoors

Add to that the Natural Channel Design failure on the Stewart River up north of Duluth. DNR’s “eco-waters’’ division is cozy with private consultant Dave Rosgen founder of Natural Channel Design. They push his methods and have even helped teach his company's courses here in Minnesota from 2013-2017.

brntrout: I've heard through the grapevine that Eco Services Ian Chisholm has taken a lot of heat over other projects throughout the state that have failed that used the Rosgen WD/ Eco Services design criteria. It appears the Rosgen/WD design doesn't work well in other areas of the state either? To be fair, I haven't seen any of the other projects outside of SE MN. However, the comment made by IBeoutdoors suggests its true!

Cutthroat
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Location: Two Harbors, Minnesota

Re: Star Tribune report on stream rehab

Post by Cutthroat »

brntrout wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 9:34 am

From: IBeoutdoors

Add to that the Natural Channel Design failure on the Stewart River up north of Duluth. DNR’s “eco-waters’’ division is cozy with private consultant Dave Rosgen founder of Natural Channel Design. They push his methods and have even helped teach his company's courses here in Minnesota from 2013-2017.
I live only a few miles from this site. The flashy nature, high gradients, rocky soils, and increasing frequency of heavy rain events make stream restoration a real challenge on these streams. Shoreline vegetation is slow to establish, and unstable channels are easily blown out in some areas.

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