June 28

General trout, fishing, conservation, or anything outdoors related discussion. Trip reports and stream conditions welcome, but please do not name streams.
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winonaflyfactory
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Post by winonaflyfactory »

Almost seems like creating an artificial environment that promotes a population that grows to a point of starving itself might be considered unethical.

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TFO5wt
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Post by TFO5wt »

winonaflyfactory wrote:Almost seems like creating an artificial environment that promotes a population that grows to a point of starving itself might be considered unethical.
Let's not get carried away here. An artificial environment is the raceways hatchery fished are raised in not a piece of water with HI. Nature ebbs and flows. It happens everywhere. Trout streams, lakes, grouse populations, white tails, and on and on and on.
Simply put, people fish because it's fun

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winonaflyfactory
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June 28

Post by winonaflyfactory »

TFO5wt wrote:
winonaflyfactory wrote:Almost seems like creating an artificial environment that promotes a population that grows to a point of starving itself might be considered unethical.
Let's not get carried away here. An artificial environment is the raceways hatchery fished are raised in not a piece of water with HI. Nature ebbs and flows. It happens everywhere. Trout streams, lakes, grouse populations, white tails, and on and on and on.
Yes the statement was hyperbolic to perhaps push a point. Is a trout stream with lunkers and other habitat improvement designed to increase the populations considered natural?
Culling of fish in those artificial environments is important when the populations get out of control. Don’t we manage other populations?

I was in debate throughout my formal education and I enjoy pushing the boundaries to spur conversation and new ideas.

brntrout
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Post by brntrout »

winonaflyfactory wrote:Yes the statement was hyperbolic to perhaps push a point. Is a trout stream with lunkers and other habitat improvement designed to increase the populations considered natural?
Culling of fish in those artificial environments is important when the populations get out of control. Don’t we manage other populations?

I was in debate throughout my formal education and I enjoy pushing the boundaries to spur conversation and new ideas
There is no such thing as NATURAL when it come to our watersheds, rivers & streams anywhere in SE MN. Unless you consider tiling, removal of landscape features that used to hold and meter out rain water more slowly, row crop planting, over pasturing, housing/road development, over application of pesticides, herbicides, manure, hog/dairy facilities, and running sewage waste water directly into trout streams natural?

IMO i would consider the condition of streams before H.I. in a degraded and unnatural condition compared to after "good" H.I. work, as that is the condition they would probably look closer to if they had not become degraded because man's negative impact on our watersheds.

brntrout
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Post by brntrout »

winonaflyfactory wrote:Culling of fish in those artificial environments is important when the populations get out of control. Don’t we manage other populations?
Everything is artificial especially our environment, man has altered the planets Eco-system entirely. Yes, we do attempt to manage fish and wildlife populations, but for the benefit of man, not for the benefit of non human species, IMO!

Trying to say, or think, our planets Eco-system is still functioning in its natural state is laughable! After all we have poisoned off the water and air and we have killed off half the species that once existed on this planet. What we need now, is more hog facilities and ethanol plants that will improve our environmental conditions, you can count on it! :(

Cutthroat
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Post by Cutthroat »

The sober reality today is that very few of the worlds ecosystems are stable. Most are in decline, and many are completely ruined--taking the people living there down with them.

S.T.Fanatic
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Post by S.T.Fanatic »

Cutthroat wrote:The sober reality today is that very few of the worlds ecosystems are stable. Most are in decline, and many are completely ruined--taking the people living there down with them.
So everyone should get out to Trout Run and keep as many limits as you can before the world implodes.
“What more delightful avocation than to take a piece of land and by cautious experimentation to prove how it works. What more substantial service to conservation than to practice it on one's own land?” Aldo Leopold

High Stick
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Post by High Stick »

Cam, I'm not sure where you're going with all this.

brntrout
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Post by brntrout »

S.T.Fanatic wrote:
Cutthroat wrote:The sober reality today is that very few of the worlds ecosystems are stable. Most are in decline, and many are completely ruined--taking the people living there down with them.
So everyone should get out to Trout Run and keep as many limits as you can before the world implodes.
The imploding process started a long time ago.

However, keeping a limit of trout now and then in streams that are over populated certainly would not hurt a thing and may be beneficial in keeping trout healthier heading into winter and may improve over winter survival?

Besides, "attempting" to send everyone to Trout Run, one should keep in mind many of the better streams are in a similar situation and also could use some additional harvest of trout under 12 inches.

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Post by S.T.Fanatic »

High Stick wrote:Cam, I'm not sure where you're going with all this.
Just wanted to push the fact that it was mentioned of a gross of trout in there. I mentioned harvest nobody said they were keeping anything. I mentioned lifting restrictions or just letting the bait issue "slide" with people that arr actually interested in keeping fish and that was over the top apparently. Someone mentions an artificial environment and others basically state the world is ending.

Man is not here for the fish, the fish are here for us. Use the resource as often as possible and eat some fish for crying out loud. The C&R only mentality will ruin fishing just as fast as the trophy hunting mentality has to deer hunting. Being able to harvest from creation is a wonderful blessing and should be exercised responsibly as often as possible.
“What more delightful avocation than to take a piece of land and by cautious experimentation to prove how it works. What more substantial service to conservation than to practice it on one's own land?” Aldo Leopold

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